<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Jul 7, 2010 at 2:25 AM, Johann Kois <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:jkois@freebsd.org">jkois@freebsd.org</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
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</div><div class="im">On 07.07.2010 02:20, Mike Bybee wrote:<br>
><br>
><br>
> On Tue, Jul 6, 2010 at 4:19 PM, Johann Kois <<a href="mailto:jkois@freebsd.org">jkois@freebsd.org</a><br>
</div><div class="im">> <mailto:<a href="mailto:jkois@freebsd.org">jkois@freebsd.org</a>>> wrote:<br>
><br>
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> On 07.07.2010 01:02, <a href="mailto:finid@linuxbsdos.com">finid@linuxbsdos.com</a><br>
</div><div class="im">> <mailto:<a href="mailto:finid@linuxbsdos.com">finid@linuxbsdos.com</a>> wrote:<br>
> >>><br>
> >> I actually like the development tab and use it regularly - I'd<br>
> vote to<br>
> >> keep it. Realistically very few actual 'end users' use PC-BSD,<br>
> but a lot<br>
> > of devs do.<br>
> ><br>
> > Mike, those "end users" are actually waiting, desperately waiting for<br>
> > PC-BSD to become a lot more end user-friendly, so that they can<br>
> use it.<br>
> ><br>
> > --<br>
> > Fini D.<br>
> > ___________________________<br>
><br>
> Hm, you want to clarify what makes the system so "totally unusable" at<br>
> the moment? So that "the end-users" cannot use it?<br>
><br>
><br>
> jkois<br>
><br>
> - --<br>
> Johann Kois<br>
> jkois(at)FreeBSD.org<br>
> FreeBSD Documentation Project<br>
> FreeBSD German Documentation Project - <a href="https://doc.bsdgroup.de" target="_blank">https://doc.bsdgroup.de</a><br>
><br>
><br>
> If you mean that seriously, I can provide notes from my most recent<br>
> pilot project. If you're being facetious, then I would recommend you go<br>
> find a random business person and ask them to use PC-BSD for 2 weeks.<br>
><br>
<br>
</div>I am always serious. No time for joking around on mailinglists. But if<br>
such a statement as above is made (and "cannot use a system" for me<br>
equals "is not usable, therefore unusable") I just want to know what<br>
exactly the encountered problems are.<br>
<br>
But that is not the real point here. I agree there are several issues<br>
regarding the usage of PC-BSD which will/can create problems especially<br>
for end-users (by that I mean newer/less experienced users).<br>
<br>
But:<br>
<br>
- - Are all these problems documented somewhere? And I am not talking<br>
about a post on a mailinglist here, because it is pretty easy to miss<br>
such reports within all the posts on the list. Maybe they are all<br>
reported on <a href="http://trac.pcbsd.org" target="_blank">http://trac.pcbsd.org</a> as feature requests/problem reports?<br>
- - If they are all documented/reported. Is there enough manpower to<br>
investigate/implement all these changes? Does the PC-BSD Project even<br>
have the possibility to change/fix all of them? I think we know the<br>
answer to that questions (unfortunately) ...<br>
- - What is/should be the ultimate goal of PC-BSD? Making experiencing<br>
"BSD on the desktop" easier? Or make it the "perfect desktop<br>
experience"? In reality it is probably the first one, but what many<br>
people would like to see is the second one (again mostly a problem of<br>
available manpower/ressources).<br>
<div class="im"><br>
<br>
<br>
jkois<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
- --<br>
Johann Kois<br>
jkois(at)FreeBSD.org<br>
FreeBSD Documentation Project<br>
FreeBSD German Documentation Project - <a href="https://doc.bsdgroup.de" target="_blank">https://doc.bsdgroup.de</a><br>
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<br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br><br><div>Yes - to my knowledge the vast majority of these, and possibly every single one, is logged as a bug with appropriate groups. We have bugs logged for the inability to play CDs. There are bugs logged for the USB issues. There are bugs logged for the sleep issues. </div>
<div>A huge chunk of these are issues with FreeBSD itself, and/or KDE on FreeBSD. Are there enough devs? Heck no. If I could dedicate myself to working full time to track these down, I would, and I'm sure a lot of you guys would too. We do this because we love the system and its underlying architecture and philosophy.</div>
<div><br></div><div>That was not the point of my reply - nor was it to imply that we should stop what we're doing. My point was that we're a lot further from real end user acceptability than the general tone of response seemed to be.</div>
<div>PC-BSD has, for example, the hands-down best installer for any BSD out there. PC-BSD is the only BSD that my wife can install properly on the first go (usually - there are still some disk partitioning problems if it wasn't windows or linux first). It has excellent screen detection, especially compared to what you get doing pkg_add -r xorg and pkg_add -r kde or whatever. It has good GELI support, which is a pain to use otherwise. The 'app store' way of installing packages is simply awesome. But there are still so many things that we need to knock off our list - let us not lose sight of where we really are, please. </div>
<div><br></div><div>Where we are is the most user friendly BSD desktop, period. 90% of this is due to the amazing efforts of the people on this list - but until we get to the point of being even Ubuntu, let's hold off on jumping people for implying that it's not 100% ready for non-developers and enthusiasts, ok? Our target audience may be the general public, but our real users are BSD users who like having a BSD that works out of the box.<br clear="all">
<br>-- <br>Thanks,<br>Mike Bybee<br>
</div>