[PC-BSD Testing] PC-BSD 8.1 RC1 - thoughts and ideas
mbybee at dometrilogy.com
Wed Jul 7 06:20:54 PDT 2010
On Wed, Jul 7, 2010 at 2:25 AM, Johann Kois <jkois at freebsd.org> wrote:
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> On 07.07.2010 02:20, Mike Bybee wrote:
> > On Tue, Jul 6, 2010 at 4:19 PM, Johann Kois <jkois at freebsd.org
> > <mailto:jkois at freebsd.org>> wrote:
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> > On 07.07.2010 01:02, finid at linuxbsdos.com
> > <mailto:finid at linuxbsdos.com> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >> I actually like the development tab and use it regularly - I'd
> > vote to
> > >> keep it. Realistically very few actual 'end users' use PC-BSD,
> > but a lot
> > > of devs do.
> > >
> > > Mike, those "end users" are actually waiting, desperately waiting
> > > PC-BSD to become a lot more end user-friendly, so that they can
> > use it.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Fini D.
> > > ___________________________
> > Hm, you want to clarify what makes the system so "totally unusable"
> > the moment? So that "the end-users" cannot use it?
> > jkois
> > - --
> > Johann Kois
> > jkois(at)FreeBSD.org
> > FreeBSD Documentation Project
> > FreeBSD German Documentation Project - https://doc.bsdgroup.de
> > If you mean that seriously, I can provide notes from my most recent
> > pilot project. If you're being facetious, then I would recommend you go
> > find a random business person and ask them to use PC-BSD for 2 weeks.
> I am always serious. No time for joking around on mailinglists. But if
> such a statement as above is made (and "cannot use a system" for me
> equals "is not usable, therefore unusable") I just want to know what
> exactly the encountered problems are.
> But that is not the real point here. I agree there are several issues
> regarding the usage of PC-BSD which will/can create problems especially
> for end-users (by that I mean newer/less experienced users).
> - - Are all these problems documented somewhere? And I am not talking
> about a post on a mailinglist here, because it is pretty easy to miss
> such reports within all the posts on the list. Maybe they are all
> reported on http://trac.pcbsd.org as feature requests/problem reports?
> - - If they are all documented/reported. Is there enough manpower to
> investigate/implement all these changes? Does the PC-BSD Project even
> have the possibility to change/fix all of them? I think we know the
> answer to that questions (unfortunately) ...
> - - What is/should be the ultimate goal of PC-BSD? Making experiencing
> "BSD on the desktop" easier? Or make it the "perfect desktop
> experience"? In reality it is probably the first one, but what many
> people would like to see is the second one (again mostly a problem of
> available manpower/ressources).
> - --
> Johann Kois
> FreeBSD Documentation Project
> FreeBSD German Documentation Project - https://doc.bsdgroup.de
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> Testing mailing list
> Testing at lists.pcbsd.org
Yes - to my knowledge the vast majority of these, and possibly every single
one, is logged as a bug with appropriate groups. We have bugs logged for the
inability to play CDs. There are bugs logged for the USB issues. There are
bugs logged for the sleep issues.
A huge chunk of these are issues with FreeBSD itself, and/or KDE on FreeBSD.
Are there enough devs? Heck no. If I could dedicate myself to working full
time to track these down, I would, and I'm sure a lot of you guys would too.
We do this because we love the system and its underlying architecture and
That was not the point of my reply - nor was it to imply that we should stop
what we're doing. My point was that we're a lot further from real end user
acceptability than the general tone of response seemed to be.
PC-BSD has, for example, the hands-down best installer for any BSD out
there. PC-BSD is the only BSD that my wife can install properly on the first
go (usually - there are still some disk partitioning problems if it wasn't
windows or linux first). It has excellent screen detection, especially
compared to what you get doing pkg_add -r xorg and pkg_add -r kde or
whatever. It has good GELI support, which is a pain to use otherwise. The
'app store' way of installing packages is simply awesome. But there are
still so many things that we need to knock off our list - let us not lose
sight of where we really are, please.
Where we are is the most user friendly BSD desktop, period. 90% of this is
due to the amazing efforts of the people on this list - but until we get to
the point of being even Ubuntu, let's hold off on jumping people for
implying that it's not 100% ready for non-developers and enthusiasts, ok?
Our target audience may be the general public, but our real users are BSD
users who like having a BSD that works out of the box.
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