[PC-BSD Testing] PC-BSD 8.1 RC1 - thoughts and ideas

Mike Bybee mbybee at dometrilogy.com
Wed Jul 7 06:20:54 PDT 2010

On Wed, Jul 7, 2010 at 2:25 AM, Johann Kois <jkois at freebsd.org> wrote:

> Hash: SHA1
> On 07.07.2010 02:20, Mike Bybee wrote:
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Jul 6, 2010 at 4:19 PM, Johann Kois <jkois at freebsd.org
> > <mailto:jkois at freebsd.org>> wrote:
> >
> >     -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> >     Hash: SHA1
> >
> >     On 07.07.2010 01:02, finid at linuxbsdos.com
> >     <mailto:finid at linuxbsdos.com> wrote:
> >     >>>
> >     >> I actually like the development tab and use it regularly - I'd
> >     vote to
> >     >> keep it. Realistically very few actual 'end users' use PC-BSD,
> >     but a lot
> >     > of devs do.
> >     >
> >     > Mike, those "end users" are actually waiting, desperately waiting
> for
> >     > PC-BSD to become a lot more end user-friendly, so that they can
> >     use it.
> >     >
> >     > --
> >     > Fini D.
> >     >  ___________________________
> >
> >     Hm, you want to clarify what makes the system so "totally unusable"
> at
> >     the moment?  So that "the end-users" cannot use it?
> >
> >
> >     jkois
> >
> >     - --
> >      Johann Kois
> >      jkois(at)FreeBSD.org
> >      FreeBSD Documentation Project
> >      FreeBSD German Documentation Project - https://doc.bsdgroup.de
> >
> >
> > If you mean that seriously, I can provide notes from my most recent
> > pilot project. If you're being facetious, then I would recommend you go
> > find a random business person and ask them to use PC-BSD for 2 weeks.
> >
> I am always serious.  No time for joking around on mailinglists.  But if
> such a statement as above is made (and "cannot use a system" for me
> equals "is not usable, therefore unusable") I just want to know what
> exactly the encountered problems are.
> But that is not the real point here.  I agree there are several issues
> regarding the usage of PC-BSD which will/can create problems especially
> for end-users (by that I mean newer/less experienced users).
> But:
> - - Are all these problems documented somewhere?  And I am not talking
> about a post on a mailinglist here, because it is pretty easy to miss
> such reports within all the posts on the list.  Maybe they are all
> reported on http://trac.pcbsd.org as feature requests/problem reports?
> - - If they are all documented/reported.  Is there enough manpower to
> investigate/implement all these changes?  Does the PC-BSD Project even
> have the possibility to change/fix all of them?  I think we know the
> answer to that questions (unfortunately) ...
> - - What is/should be the ultimate goal of PC-BSD?  Making experiencing
> "BSD on the desktop" easier?  Or make it the "perfect desktop
> experience"?  In reality it is probably the first one, but what many
> people would like to see is the second one (again mostly a problem of
> available manpower/ressources).
> jkois
> - --
>  Johann Kois
>  jkois(at)FreeBSD.org
>  FreeBSD Documentation Project
>  FreeBSD German Documentation Project - https://doc.bsdgroup.de
> Version: GnuPG v2.0.14 (FreeBSD)
> Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/
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Yes - to my knowledge the vast majority of these, and possibly every single
one, is logged as a bug with appropriate groups. We have bugs logged for the
inability to play CDs. There are bugs logged for the USB issues. There are
bugs logged for the sleep issues.
A huge chunk of these are issues with FreeBSD itself, and/or KDE on FreeBSD.
Are there enough devs? Heck no. If I could dedicate myself to working full
time to track these down, I would, and I'm sure a lot of you guys would too.
We do this because we love the system and its underlying architecture and

That was not the point of my reply - nor was it to imply that we should stop
what we're doing. My point was that we're a lot further from real end user
acceptability than the general tone of response seemed to be.
PC-BSD has, for example, the hands-down best installer for any BSD out
there. PC-BSD is the only BSD that my wife can install properly on the first
go (usually - there are still some disk partitioning problems if it wasn't
windows or linux first). It has excellent screen detection, especially
compared to what you get doing pkg_add -r xorg and pkg_add -r kde or
whatever. It has good GELI support, which is a pain to use otherwise. The
'app store' way of installing packages is simply awesome. But there are
still so many things that we need to knock off our list - let us not lose
sight of where we really are, please.

Where we are is the most user friendly BSD desktop, period. 90% of this is
due to the amazing efforts of the people on this list - but until we get to
the point of being even Ubuntu, let's hold off on jumping people for
implying that it's not 100% ready for non-developers and enthusiasts, ok?
Our target audience may be the general public, but our real users are BSD
users who like having a BSD that works out of the box.

Mike Bybee
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