[PC-BSD Testing] Testing Digest, Vol 14, Issue 11

Ian Robinson fitchkendall at gmail.com
Sat Mar 15 14:55:52 PST 2008


Report on PCBSD 1.5 PBI Upgrade:

1.  The PBI update from 1.4.1.2 to 1.5 took 1 hour + 15 minutes on an HP
Vectra VL420, 1.6 GHz, 1 Gb RAM.

The screen feedback is not very informative.  While the accumlation of dots
on the screen shows progress, you do not know that it will take seven+ (>7)
rows of dots to complete the "Cleaning old packages" section (30 minutes)
and seven (7) rows of dots to complete "Installing new packages" (30
minutes).  The "Extracting new files," "Installing new world environment,"
and "Installing new kernel" functions complete quickly after that.

In comparison to the PBI update method, a fresh install of all PBI's, ports,
and source code on a Vectra VL400, 800 GHz, 512 Gb RAM took less than 30
minutes.  However, restoring /usr/home/username from backup would take five
to ten minutes and PBI installation of several PBI's would take longer. In
conclusion, I think the time involved to reach the same point is about the
same whether one does a fresh install of 1.5 or a 1.5 PBI upgrade.  I can't
say how much time it would take to reinstall the user's choice of ports, but
they have to be reinstalled whether one does a fresh install or a PBI
upgrade.

If I had to choose between the two, I think the fresh install offers more
feedback, certainty, and comfort.  Either way, it is necessary to backup
critical data based upon your experience, common sense, and the adequate
warnings PCBSD puts in the installation routines.


2.  I had no video configuration problems.  I had no mouse problems with an
HP ps2 -- all buttons functioning normally. I had no problems with desktop
icons.  Audio (snd_ich) worked great.  Video playback worked fine.

3.  All packages and my pbi's were replaced successfully or survived the
upgrade except Win4BSD.  Although Win4BSD is installed via a PBI, and
although it creates a directory in /Programs, Win4BSD puts its startup
script in a non-standard directory -- /usr/local/lib/win4bsd/bin/ -- which
does not survive the upgrade.  Sterr output is:

/Programs/Win4BSD4.0-63936/winpro.sh: /usr/local/lib/win4bsd/bin/winpro-
desktop.sh: not found

I had a backup of the Win4BSD virtual disk so I have lost nothing of
consequence, and I believe a pbi reinstall is all that will be required.

4.  PCBSD Update Manager updated part of the system ok.  However, when it
came to PBI updates, the Sylpheed PBI started to fetch the update, but
stopped with an error message that the 2.4.8 version did not pass an
integrity check.  (This is probably a source code problem unrelated to the
upgrade.)  I skipped Sylpheed and continued to download the updates for
Opera 9.26 & K3B 1.0.4 which reported as successful.  I could not find where
the Opera & K3B updates were downloaded or stored, and I did not see them
perform an update to the programs.  Opera and K3B still report the "old"
version numbers in their "About" screens.  Perhaps a reboot is required,
which I have not done.

Because the PBI upgrades are not installed, the icon remains in its blue
triangle state and reports that PBI updates are available.

5.  Macs.  PCBSD Developer support is responsive and responsible, even
though the staff and resources are very thin compared to M$ or Apple.
Whenever there are wide choices and combinations of hardware and software
like in the PC world, there are bound to be hardware compatibility issues
and software configuration problems.  Macs have a great operating system,
but they do not have a better operating system.  I think Macs appear to work
"better" only because Apple has restricted a user's choice of hardware and
software, thereby eliminating the likelihood of compatibility and
configuration.  However, a Mac is a wonderful choice for those who can
afford them.


Ian Robinson
Salem, Ohio


On Fri, Mar 14, 2008 at 1:24 PM, <testing-request at lists.pcbsd.org> wrote:

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> Today's Topics:
>
>   1. 1.5 update (mouse bug, etc) (Rod Clark)
>   2. Broken GTK engine (Qt) message (Rod Clark)
>   3. Re: Broken GTK engine (Qt) message (Rod Clark)
>   4. Re: 1.5 update (mouse bug, etc) (Kris Moore)
>   5. Re: Broken GTK engine (Qt) message (Kris Moore)
>   6. Video drivers settings problems (Rod Clark)
>   7. Checking ports a la portsnap (Rod Clark)
>   8. Re: Broken GTK engine (Qt) message (Terry Poulin)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 08:01:33 +0000 (UTC)
> From: Rod Clark <sc at sdf.lonestar.org>
> Subject: [PC-BSD Testing] 1.5 update (mouse bug, etc)
> To: testing at lists.pcbsd.org
> Message-ID: <Pine.NEB.4.64.0803140640150.15796 at faeroes.freeshell.org>
> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
>
> Kris,
>
> Mouse bug:
> After I installed the 1.5 update PBI today, my mouse
> involuntarily changed from left handed to right handed, and I
> can't set it back again. KDE Peripherals/Mouse still showed left
> hand settings, but it operated as a right hand mouse. I set it
> to right hand operation, and then back back to left hand again,
> with no effect. I can use the mouse equally well with either
> hand, but this appears to be a bug. The mouse is a commonplace
> Logitech M-SBF90 optical mouse. I was running 1.4.1.2 before the
> upgrade.
>
>
> PBI updates (icon updating, minor):
> The Filezilla update PBI that I ran from the new Installer icon
> on the panel deleted my Filezilla desktop icon. When I picked
> Copy to Desktop from Filezilla on the K start menu, the icon
> reappeared in the same spot as the old Filezilla icon on the
> desktop.
>
> The Wine update PBI deleted my Wine Config desktop icon, but
> when I copied the icon to the desktop again, it bypassed its old
> location and went to a new spot, at the far left of a new row
> below all the other icons on the desktop.
>
> The Firefox 2.0.0.12 update PBI replaced Firefox 2.0.0.11, but
> afterwards my Firefox panel icon (which it didn't delete) didn't
> work. It still pointed to the old 2.0.0.11 PBI location. I
> manually updated the path in the Properties section of the panel
> icon.
>
>
> Time taken to update:
> 60 minutes, on an Athlon 2200+ system with 2 GB memory and a
> 200GB SATA drive.
>
>
> Port updates:
> As far as I know, the ports in 1.5 are the same (FreeBSD 6.3) as
> I was using with 1.4.1.2. My ports tree was up to date with
> portsnap. The update nevertheless erased my editor, my Web
> server (lighttpd, php, mysql and other things), gimpshop and a
> laundry list of installed ports that it will take many hours to
> reinstall.
>
> This is one of the two reasons (the other is limited hardware
> compatibility) that I have given up recommending PC-BSD to
> anyone who isn't a serious techie any more, even though I'm
> happy to use it myself. Many users will still need to install
> software from ports with the inevitable minor glitches and
> hassles that entails. After they've puzzled out how to install
> some ports, or gotten help from a techie family member to do
> that, along comes a friendly GUI update and this happens to
> them. I'm willing to put in the hours to clean up after this PBI
> update, but believe me, I won't wish PC-BSD on my family or
> friends who use Macs.
>
> -rsc
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 13:03:38 +0000 (UTC)
> From: Rod Clark <sc at sdf.lonestar.org>
> Subject: [PC-BSD Testing] Broken GTK engine (Qt) message
> To: PC-BSD Testing list <testing at lists.pcbsd.org>
> Message-ID: <Pine.NEB.4.64.0803141254100.24943 at faeroes.freeshell.org>
> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
>
> Kris,
>
> Another small note on 1.5:
>
> After installing Audacious (an audio player) from ports using
> the defaults (well, except that I enabled FLAC), I see the
> following message when it starts:
>
> "Broken GTK engine in use
> Audacious has detected that you are using a broken GTK engine.
> The theme engine you are using, Qt is incompatible with some of
> the features used by modern skins. The incompatible features
> have been disabled for this session.
> To use these features, please consider using a different GTK
> theme engine.
> ( ) Do not display this warning again
> [Close]"
>
>
> Overall, things are mostly going well with it.
> Thanks,
>
> -rsc
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 13:35:55 +0000 (UTC)
> From: Rod Clark <sc at sdf.lonestar.org>
> Subject: Re: [PC-BSD Testing] Broken GTK engine (Qt) message
> To: PC-BSD Testing list <testing at lists.pcbsd.org>
> Message-ID: <Pine.NEB.4.64.0803141329480.1387 at faeroes.freeshell.org>
> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
>
> > "Broken GTK engine in use
>
> Kris,
>
> There's more to this than I thought. When I ran it, Audacious
> played sound choppily, playing for about 4/5 second and then
> blanking for 1/5 second. That's with nothing else running - I
> turned off Folding at Home, which normally has no effect on it
> anyway. Kplayer and Kaffeine play videos that sound normal. OK,
> I'm baffled.
>
> -rsc
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 09:55:13 -0400
> From: Kris Moore <kris at pcbsd.com>
> Subject: Re: [PC-BSD Testing] 1.5 update (mouse bug, etc)
> To: PC-BSD Testing list <testing at lists.pcbsd.org>, sc at sdf.lonestar.org
> Message-ID: <47DA83C1.9080306 at pcbsd.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
>
> Rod,
>
>
> Answers below!
>
>
>
> Rod Clark wrote:
> > Kris,
> >
> > Mouse bug:
> > After I installed the 1.5 update PBI today, my mouse
> > involuntarily changed from left handed to right handed, and I
> > can't set it back again. KDE Peripherals/Mouse still showed left
> > hand settings, but it operated as a right hand mouse. I set it
> > to right hand operation, and then back back to left hand again,
> > with no effect. I can use the mouse equally well with either
> > hand, but this appears to be a bug. The mouse is a commonplace
> > Logitech M-SBF90 optical mouse. I was running 1.4.1.2 before the
> > upgrade.
> >
>
>
> The mouse problem appears to be common in KDE 3.5.8, and effected other
> linux distros as well:
>
>
> http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/slackware-14/unable-to-configure-left-hand-mouse-with-kde-3.5.8-in-current-607171/
>
> Once 3.5.9 hits the ports, I'll see if we can get an update to that ASAP.
>
>
>
>
> > PBI updates (icon updating, minor):
> > The Filezilla update PBI that I ran from the new Installer icon
> > on the panel deleted my Filezilla desktop icon. When I picked
> > Copy to Desktop from Filezilla on the K start menu, the icon
> > reappeared in the same spot as the old Filezilla icon on the
> > desktop.
> >
> > The Wine update PBI deleted my Wine Config desktop icon, but
> > when I copied the icon to the desktop again, it bypassed its old
> > location and went to a new spot, at the far left of a new row
> > below all the other icons on the desktop.
> >
> > The Firefox 2.0.0.12 update PBI replaced Firefox 2.0.0.11, but
> > afterwards my Firefox panel icon (which it didn't delete) didn't
> > work. It still pointed to the old 2.0.0.11 PBI location. I
> > manually updated the path in the Properties section of the panel
> > icon.
>
> The desktop icons are indeed removed by the PBI updater, and only
> "kmenu" icons are installed. This was done for multi-user support,
> otherwise if I defaulted to creating a ton of icons, every time you
> would upgrade, a new icon would show up on the desktop, and you'd have
> to delete it if you didn't want it :(
>
> That being said, I'll look into a solution for this, to see if we can
> find a compromise, where it detects and preserves existing kicker /
> desktop icons, and updates them to point to the new locations.
>
> In the meantime, One thing you can do, is simple create a new desktop
> icon for your application, and point it to /usr/local/bin/<progname>,
> such as /usr/local/bin/firefox. This icon would not be effected by the
> upgrade, and since most PBIs make a /usr/local/bin link, the icon
> wouldn't need to be tweaked each time an upgrade was performed.
>
> >
> > Time taken to update:
> > 60 minutes, on an Athlon 2200+ system with 2 GB memory and a
> > 200GB SATA drive.
> >
> >
> > Port updates:
> > As far as I know, the ports in 1.5 are the same (FreeBSD 6.3) as
> > I was using with 1.4.1.2. My ports tree was up to date with
> > portsnap. The update nevertheless erased my editor, my Web
> > server (lighttpd, php, mysql and other things), gimpshop and a
> > laundry list of installed ports that it will take many hours to
> > reinstall.
>
> > This is one of the two reasons (the other is limited hardware
> > compatibility) that I have given up recommending PC-BSD to
> > anyone who isn't a serious techie any more, even though I'm
> > happy to use it myself. Many users will still need to install
> > software from ports with the inevitable minor glitches and
> > hassles that entails. After they've puzzled out how to install
> > some ports, or gotten help from a techie family member to do
> > that, along comes a friendly GUI update and this happens to
> > them. I'm willing to put in the hours to clean up after this PBI
> > update, but believe me, I won't wish PC-BSD on my family or
> > friends who use Macs.
> >
> > -rsc
> > _______________________________________________
> > Testing mailing list
> > Testing at lists.pcbsd.org
> > http://lists.pcbsd.org/mailman/listinfo/testing
> >
> > !DSPAM:1,47da31c9588511121611996!
> >
> >
>
>
> To be fair, the update DID warn you about this, no less than twice :)
> Once on the download page, and one again before the actual update
> install. Power users who are customizing the base system, and installing
> / updating ports should backup their additions, before installing any
> updates. Since we roll out binary updates, I can't include all 14k
> binary ports in a package, and try to figure out which ones a user has
> installed, so we "upgrade" it at the same time.
>
> That being said, this patch upgraded a wide range of systems, from 1.3
> which was based on 6.1 and higher. And to be truly "feature" complete
> with 1.5, it needed to install just the default set of packages. I do
> have on my list to get a PBI version of the ports you mentioned, such as
> php, mysql, etc. Once users are running those, then they shouldn't be
> effected by an update such as this. Once we get to the point where we
> have 14k PBIs available then, hopefully, we'll users wont need to be
> adding / removing ports as frequently.
>
> --
>
> Kris Moore
> PC-BSD Software
> http://www.pcbsd.com
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 10:01:33 -0400
> From: Kris Moore <kris at pcbsd.com>
> Subject: Re: [PC-BSD Testing] Broken GTK engine (Qt) message
> To: PC-BSD Testing list <testing at lists.pcbsd.org>
> Message-ID: <47DA853D.2040904 at pcbsd.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
>
> I haven't yet played with Audacious, so I'm not sure what the stuttering
> bug is all about. Is it maxing out your CPU if you look with "top"? Does
> it have any sound configuration settings that can be tweaked to run the
> same way as Kplayer  / Kaffeine?
>
>
> As for GTK - QT Theme engine, the version in ports is getting pretty old:
>
> http://www.freshports.org/x11-themes/gtk-qt-engine/
>
> We are running 0.7 still, when 1.1! is already out :(
>
> We'll have to see about bugging the port maintainer to find out if this
> can be updated. There's quite a few fixes / enhancements listed for the
> versions after 0.7, and its possible that one of those will fix the
> theme engine problem Audacious is having.
>
>
> --
>
> Kris Moore
> PC-BSD Software
> http://www.pcbsd.com
>
>
> Rod Clark wrote:
> >> "Broken GTK engine in use
> >
> > Kris,
> >
> > There's more to this than I thought. When I ran it, Audacious
> > played sound choppily, playing for about 4/5 second and then
> > blanking for 1/5 second. That's with nothing else running - I
> > turned off Folding at Home, which normally has no effect on it
> > anyway. Kplayer and Kaffeine play videos that sound normal. OK,
> > I'm baffled.
> >
> > -rsc
> > _______________________________________________
> > Testing mailing list
> > Testing at lists.pcbsd.org
> > http://lists.pcbsd.org/mailman/listinfo/testing
> >
> > !DSPAM:1,47da7e19588511021411401!
> >
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 14:52:04 +0000 (UTC)
> From: Rod Clark <sc at sdf.lonestar.org>
> Subject: [PC-BSD Testing] Video drivers settings problems
> To: PC-BSD Testing list <testing at lists.pcbsd.org>
> Message-ID: <Pine.NEB.4.64.0803141405001.5555 at faeroes.freeshell.org>
> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
>
> Kris,
>
> There's something odd happening now when setting the video
> driver in 1.5. Initially I had set it up with Nvidia 169.12. But
> when the audio bug came up, I set the X driver back to nv, which
> I'd been using on 1.4.1.2, just to be paranoid. Changing it
> didn't affect the sound problem, so I went to set it back to
> Nvidia. Using the graphical K dialog box, the changeover hung up
> mid-process for several minutes with a black screen with a white
> outline X cursor in the middle. I could move the mouse cursor
> but nothing else responded. I manually rebooted the machine and
> picked 6 from the bootup menu.
>
> After checking my display's (Planar PL2010M) resolution, it
> incorrectly presented 1024x768 in the dialog. (But it also did
> that the first time when everything else worked right).
>
> In any case, it wouldn't return to the Nvidia driver. When I
> picked 1600x1200 24-bit, it instead showed a 1024x768 preview
> screen. And even if I clicked OK a that point, it wouldn't
> install the 1024x768 Nvidia driver, exiting with an error
> message. When I picked the nv driver instead, it proceeded
> normally from there, and so now I'm back to 1600x1200. Unlike
> with 1.4.x, there's very little if any speed advantage with teh
> new Nvidia 169.12 driver over nv, at least on my 3-year old FX
> 5200. The nv driver is the same speed as before.
>
> Later it occurred to me that a green checkmark like the one for
> the panel tray update status had appeared for a while in the
> upper left corner of the black screen when it was salled there,
> though the check mark also disappeared from the black screen
> after a few minutes. I wonder whether that might have been
> because of the new system update checking routines.
>
> Just now, the system/PBI update icon on the panel took a very
> long time to switch from the green broadcast wave icon to the
> green check mark, so much so that I quit watching it continually
> display its little red lettered message about waiting to to
> check Scribus. Now it reports everything is updated. But that
> took forever. If it's somehow running during the X setup, maybe
> it could be separated out and done later.
>
> -rsc
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 15:11:06 +0000 (UTC)
> From: Rod Clark <sc at sdf.lonestar.org>
> Subject: [PC-BSD Testing] Checking ports a la portsnap
> To: Kris Moore <kris at pcbsd.com>
> Cc: PC-BSD Testing list <testing at lists.pcbsd.org>
> Message-ID: <Pine.NEB.4.64.0803141458570.5555 at faeroes.freeshell.org>
> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
>
> Kris Moore wrote:
> > I can't include all 14k binary ports in a package, and try to
> > figure out which ones a user has installed, ...
>
> Kris,
>
> Portsnap takes just a minute to scan the entire ports tree. It's
> very fast, and does check each individual port that the user has
> added. Maybe there's a way to do something similar to that. In
> an update process that already takes an hour, a few more minutes
> spent checking which additional ports are in use (certainly a
> comparative few of the 17,000) would be very welcome.
>
> Maybe it would be OK to first complete the basic installation as
> normal, and then to start quietly adding the additional ports
> found during the scan, in the background of the otherwise
> upgraded and functioning system. Show the user a nice GIU
> message explaining that it's doing that. Write out a scan result
> file, and then write a progress file based on that (e.g. line by
> line, "blah-port - updating... completed").
>
> -rsc
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 13:24:02 -0400
> From: "Terry Poulin" <bigboss1964 at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [PC-BSD Testing] Broken GTK engine (Qt) message
> To: "PC-BSD Testing list" <testing at lists.pcbsd.org>
> Message-ID:
>        <6cd75f040803141024q63a0f699ked49a4324fd28faa at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Most port-maintainers I've encountered are very nice if you send them a
> reminder to update a port.
>
>
> The gtk-qt-engine as included back in PC-BSD v1.4.x I know was a major
> problem causer -- no kde, no gtk apps. I don't know about the stuttering
> problem but any visual errors would deffo be caused by it..
>
> Hopefully gtk-qt-engine 1.x is a lot better then 7.x :-)
>
> On Fri, Mar 14, 2008 at 10:01 AM, Kris Moore <kris at pcbsd.com> wrote:
>
> >
> > I haven't yet played with Audacious, so I'm not sure what the stuttering
> > bug is all about. Is it maxing out your CPU if you look with "top"? Does
> > it have any sound configuration settings that can be tweaked to run the
> > same way as Kplayer  / Kaffeine?
> >
> >
> > As for GTK - QT Theme engine, the version in ports is getting pretty
> old:
> >
> > http://www.freshports.org/x11-themes/gtk-qt-engine/
> >
> > We are running 0.7 still, when 1.1! is already out :(
> >
> > We'll have to see about bugging the port maintainer to find out if this
> > can be updated. There's quite a few fixes / enhancements listed for the
> > versions after 0.7, and its possible that one of those will fix the
> > theme engine problem Audacious is having.
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > Kris Moore
> > PC-BSD Software
> > http://www.pcbsd.com
> >
> >
> > Rod Clark wrote:
> > >> "Broken GTK engine in use
> > >
> > > Kris,
> > >
> > > There's more to this than I thought. When I ran it, Audacious
> > > played sound choppily, playing for about 4/5 second and then
> > > blanking for 1/5 second. That's with nothing else running - I
> > > turned off Folding at Home, which normally has no effect on it
> > > anyway. Kplayer and Kaffeine play videos that sound normal. OK,
> > > I'm baffled.
> > >
> > > -rsc
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Testing mailing list
> > > Testing at lists.pcbsd.org
> > > http://lists.pcbsd.org/mailman/listinfo/testing
> > >
> > > !DSPAM:1,47da7e19588511021411401!
> > >
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Testing mailing list
> > Testing at lists.pcbsd.org
> > http://lists.pcbsd.org/mailman/listinfo/testing
> >
>
>
>
> --
> [SAS]_Spidey01
> Regimental Sergeant Major
> 22nd Special Air service EVR
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