[PC-BSD Dev] meeting chat Log - 2009-04-20

Fabrizio Parrella fabrizio at bibivu.com
Mon Apr 20 14:17:44 PDT 2009


here the file as attachment in HTML (pidgin saved like that)

Fabrizio Parrella wrote:
> EST time
> Conversation with #pcbsd-team
> (14:03:32) EffEPi77: hey
>  (14:03:38) kmoore134: Hey there!
>  (14:03:45) EffEPi77: Fabry here :-)
>  (14:03:51) yerenkow: do this channel logging? I mean can we have this 
> conversation logged for future rethinking? :)
>  (14:04:16) EffEPi77: I am using pidgin, I can log and post it someplace 
> when we need
>  (14:04:17) kmoore134: sure, who wants to do that?
>  (14:04:27) kmoore134: ok, great
>  (14:04:30) EffEPi77: I am not going to be here all the time, but the 
> window will stay open as long as necessary
>  (14:05:34) yerenkow: ok. I made some discussing "plan", here 
> http://pastebin.com/d1c722883
>  (14:05:52) yerenkow: let's go from #1. Why we have PBI corrupted, is 
> there any way to automate PBI Checks?
>  (14:06:46) kmoore134: depends on the type of corruption you mean. If 
> its just that we had an old PBI from before we move to schema 2, those 
> bugs are going away as we replace them with currently built PBIs
>  (14:06:49) EffEPi77: Gon had a great idea for pbidir about this... have 
> a way for people to just "click" to report any problems
>  (14:07:13) kmoore134: Yea, that was a great idea, so we can get instant 
> warning if something is bad / not working
>  (14:07:28) miwi [n=miwi at cl-2464.ham-01.de.sixxs.net] entered the room.
>  (14:07:31) miwi: howdy
>  (14:07:39) jpaetzel: Hi miwi
>  (14:07:44) EffEPi77: hey miwi
>  (14:07:47) yerenkow: But why we have somehow broken PBI uploaded in the 
> first time?
>  (14:08:07) yerenkow: I mean, can we run this ./PBI -extract at least, 
> and check errors?
>  (14:08:26) kmoore134: That may be possible, do some auto-mated check to 
> make sure its legit on the site
>  (14:09:10) yerenkow: All PBI's which I seen here was simple 
> "corrupted", and in command line that was seen too.
>  (14:09:44) yerenkow: So, while we have no PBI-builder engine which 
> makes no mistakes, could we create this additional test-step?
>  (14:10:09) yerenkow: All PBI's = All broken PBI's. ....
>  (14:10:11) kmoore134: yes, I'll look into this. Maybe put script which 
> just "checks" to confirm its correct file / md5 etc
>  (14:10:51) yerenkow: Any other thoughts about this? Or move to #2? :)
>  (14:11:16) kmoore134: I think thats good :) Before we move to #2, can 
> we let miwi talk for a bit, hes got some news about 8/kde4
>  (14:12:43) MelkorBSD [n=MelkorBS at melkorbsd.static.corbina.ru] entered 
> the room.
>  (14:12:50) EffEPi77: hey melkor
>  (14:13:00) EffEPi77: I am ok with that.. want surely hear the news :)
>  (14:13:07) MelkorBSD: hi all
>  (14:13:40) kmoore134: Hey!
>  (14:14:45) miwi: ups :)
>  (14:15:53) yerenkow: http://pastebin.com/d1c722883 -- this is my 
> discussing :plan", we currently finished #1, this for all newcomers
>  (14:16:07) kmoore134: Martin, you want to tell everybody about the 8.0 
> release, and issues with KDE4?
>  (14:16:25) miwi: 8.0 will be released this year (code freeze beginn to 
> the end of next month or so) the problem is the kppp (if_ppp ) was 
> removed, and 8.0 will be have a new usb stack
>  (14:16:59) yerenkow: new usb - I'm not sure this is a problem :)
>  (14:17:15) jpaetzel: Doesn't PCBSD already use usb4bsd?
>  (14:17:24) kmoore134: No, we are on standard 7.x freebsd stack
>  (14:17:32) miwi: kde4 build failed with USB2 we use currently the old api
>  (14:17:42) miwi: but this will be disabeld any time
>  (14:17:46) miwi: and we need to be fixed that
>  (14:17:52) jpaetzel: Ok, so that never materialized, I think we talked 
> about moving to it last year.
>  (14:17:53) miwi: we need now a programmer where can do that :(
>  (14:18:17) yerenkow: hm, do kde at freebsd.org not have programmers? :(
>  (14:18:19) kmoore134: yea, we talked about it, but it caused too many 
> issues like we are finding now with kde4 :)
>  (14:18:19) ***jpaetzel volunteers Jogn @ ix
>  (14:18:24) kmoore134: haha
>  (14:18:36) kmoore134: good thinking, leme see if John Hixson is around
>  (14:18:52) miwi: yerenkow: currently now FreeBSD KDE team is a 2 mann 
> project :(
>  (14:19:02) miwi: s/mann/people
>  (14:19:26) kmoore134: yea, they have been doing a TON of work to make 
> KDE4 work on BSD, I only send over a few small patches from time to time
>  (14:19:26) miwi: max and i do our best but we can't deal with all alone 
> sorry we both have kids and family and a job :)
>  (14:19:36) yerenkow: which kde parts not aware of new usb?
>  (14:19:48) miwi: kdelibs/base/utils
>  (14:19:52) jpaetzel: kmoore134: It's far easier just to commit him to 
> doing things and tell Matt about it after the fact.
>  (14:20:14) kmoore134: jpaetzel: sounds good to me ;)
>  (14:20:39) kmoore134: miwi: do you have idea how much needs to be 
> changed to work with new usb2? Is it just function / name changes?
>  (14:21:12) miwi: kmoore134: old usb is hardcodet, stass@ told me we 
> need a full rewrite :(
>  (14:21:24) kmoore134: ouch!
>  (14:21:39) yerenkow: ok, is new usb stack is documented well, to make 
> migration?
>  (14:22:10) miwi: yerenkow: not full yet but this will be finish befor 
> the release is
>  (14:22:22) yerenkow: are they planning some guide oldusb->newusb ?
>  (14:22:50) miwi: I'm not sure but I can ask thompsa and let you know that
>  (14:24:00) kmoore134: I wouldn't mind helping, but I got so much on my 
> plate as it is, that its hard to find the time :(
>  (14:24:17) yerenkow: how about let's back for kde-usb conversation in 
> about three weeks? I'll get sources for this all, read something and 
> talk to my cpp friend :)
>  (14:24:57) miwi: sounds good
>  (14:24:59) kmoore134: miwi: after we write patches, will we be able to 
> submit to KDE for inclusion into their codebase?
>  (14:25:10) yerenkow: I think yes
>  (14:25:26) miwi: yes
>  (14:25:35) miwi: I've now a commit bit for kde svn :)
>  (14:25:46) kmoore134: ahh, excellent, thats what I needed to know :)
>  (14:26:18) yerenkow: ok. can we now share IM-contacts? :) I think that 
> would be helpful for me
>  (14:26:26) kmoore134: is HAL working with new USB stack also BTW?
>  (14:26:36) miwi: kmoore134: yep without problems :)
>  (14:26:51) miwi: yerenkow: jabber: miwi at bsdcrew.de, skype: splash_111
>  (14:26:55) miwi: irc miwi :)
>  (14:27:49) kmoore134: miwi: do you have a yahoo-im as well?
>  (14:28:06) miwi: no
>  (14:28:23) kmoore134: ahh, have to setup a jabber account then :P
>  (14:28:34) miwi: :)
>  (14:28:45) yerenkow: ok, I have jabber: yerenkow at gmail.com, yahoo: 
> zlobnyhacker, and skype: yerenkow
>  (14:29:59) yerenkow: Ok, if anyone more want to share contacts - I'd 
> like to get it :)
>  (14:30:39) yerenkow: So, is there some more things broken in 8.0? :) Or 
> we can go further, for #2
>  (14:31:00) kmoore134: Well, the other thing to discuss, is how fast do 
> we push on 8.0 for PC-BSD as well
>  (14:31:15) kmoore134: if its only 3-4 months out, do we work on a 7.2 
> release, or push ahead to 8.0?
>  (14:31:37) kmoore134: I for one really could use the new USB stack. Got 
> lots of new motherboards here which don't work with USB keyboard / mice 
> on old stack
>  (14:32:15) miwi: usb2 works really great and support a lot of new stuff 
> also a lot new usb wlan sticks :)
>  (14:32:16) jpaetzel: I'd say 7.2 is a waste of resources.
>  (14:32:54) yerenkow: Many peoples currently still on 1.5, because of no 
> "upgrade" feature in 7
>  (14:32:57) kmoore134: jpaetzel: I'm leaning that way as well, since 8.0 
> has lots of new goodies / features, that most desktop users will want
>  (14:33:40) yerenkow: so, if we make upgrade 7->8, then I'd like to see 
> 8.0, if no - then 7.2 should be
>  (14:33:42) kmoore134: yerenkow: That is by design though, I dont like 
> offering upgrades from major releases, because they are often not binary 
> compatiable. You end up having to re-install everything anyway
>  (14:34:43) yerenkow: ok, so I think we should release 7.2 and stop in 7 
> branch. and release only kernel and security patches, this would require 
> minial attention
>  (14:35:24) kmoore134: what would we want to do for 7.2 then. Just 
> update ports / source and bugfixes, and throw all new features into 8.0?
>  (14:35:50) jpaetzel: I don't see the point in doing a 7.2
>  (14:35:56) kmoore134: for example, we have a brand-new system installer 
> which we will merge in soon. Not sure if we should spend time making it 
> work with 7.2, or get it working for 8
>  (14:36:15) jpaetzel: FreeBSD can do it because it has the resources. 
> What does it buy PC-BSD?
>  (14:36:28) yerenkow: well, I think that source-freeze for 8.0 not 
> guaranteed that it would out soon
>  (14:36:45) jpaetzel: What makes you think that?
>  (14:36:48) yerenkow: I remember 6.0, it was delaying forawhile
>  (14:36:59) kmoore134: jpaetzel: True, plus we are already using 7.2PRE 
> on our 7.1 release, so it won't really be a huge jump forward
>  (14:37:50) jpaetzel: I have to run out for 20 minutes or so
>  (14:37:51) jpaetzel: bbl
>  (14:38:26) kmoore134: miwi, do we have any other major kde4 releases 
> upcoming into ports tree? We are on 4.2.2, do you think we'll see a 4.3 
> release soon?
>  (14:38:42) yerenkow: Kris, maybe we should go through my plan, and 
> after that maybe something became more clear? :)
>  (14:38:55) kmoore134: that may be good, give it a few weeks to settle / 
> get docs on USB porting
>  (14:38:58) yerenkow: I'm about 7.2 or 8.0
>  (14:39:18) jnixon3_: If we do release a 7.2, I dont think it should be 
> considered a release, or renamed from Galileo, but I am not opposed to 
> seeing it as an "update"
>  (14:39:19) miwi: kris yes
>  (14:39:34) miwi: 16 april is kde 4.3 soft feauter freeze
>  (14:39:53) miwi: 5 mai KDE 4.3 BETA1 TAG
>  (14:40:07) yerenkow: so we'll have 4.3 in month or so
>  (14:40:08) miwi: 4.3 release 28 july
>  (14:40:16) yerenkow: in three? :)
>  (14:40:28) kmoore134: does 4.3 rely on QT 4.5 or still 4.4?
>  (14:40:35) miwi: 4.4
>  (14:41:00) yerenkow: does kde compiles with qt45?
>  (14:41:08) miwi: btw what I know is that 4.4 will be backward complatil
>  (14:41:09) yerenkow: or they dropped something
>  (14:41:17) miwi: yerenkow: it works with 4.2.2
>  (14:41:48) yerenkow: so we could take qt4.5 and build kde4 ?
>  (14:41:53) kmoore134: ok. So maybe what we can do is a release of 
> PC-BSD 7.2 in July, with FreeBSD 7.2-Base, and KDE 4.3 / QT 4.4 still, 
> and make that the last in 7.x series?
>  (14:42:11) miwi: we are more or less ready with qt4.5, we need after 
> the ports freeze some cluster exp-runs to make sure nothink will break
>  (14:42:46) kmoore134: miwi: will you replace qt 4.4 in ports, with 4.5 
> when its ready, or have both available?
>  (14:43:42) miwi: no we update 4.4 to 4.5
>  (14:44:22) miwi: unfortunately we can't use both on the portstree :(
>  (14:44:33) kmoore134: ahh, ok, makes sense
>  (14:44:36) miwi: but if you want I can make copy in area51
>  (14:44:54) kmoore134: naw, thats fine, its probably not a huge deal on 
> my side here
>  (14:45:10) kmoore134: when is FreeBSD 7.2 scheduled for release?
>  (14:45:25) miwi: Announcement 4 May 2009
>  (14:45:34) miwi: portsfreeze should be today end
>  (14:45:36) kmoore134: ok, thats only in a few weeks, sheesh :P
>  (14:45:50) kmoore134: I would hate to do a PC-BSD 7.2 release so soon 
> after 7.1 :(
>  (14:46:32) miwi: :)
>  (14:46:33) kmoore134: all that would be different is is a more updated 
> ports tree, and some of the bugfixes we've issues for 7.1 online 
> already. Do you guys think that warrents a new release so quickly?
>  (14:47:30) jnixon3_: Kris, do have to consider every dot release of 
> PC-BSD as a "release"
>  (14:47:32) yerenkow: We arenot following so pdeantic, we have 7.2PRE 
> kernel in 7.1 PC-BSD, I'm not see any reason why we can't wait till 
> June/July to release 7.2 with some additional things
>  (14:48:58) kmoore134: true. So why don't we just do a minor release of 
> 7.2 june/july with latest ports / bugfixes. And then put all resources 
> for new features into 8.x?
>  (14:49:12) jnixon3_: I don't see a problem with going to 7.2, keeping 
> the Galileo name, and calling it a "service pack" or something. In fact, 
> unless there are many siginificant changes, we shouldn't call it a 
> release, but we also should't skip out on the goodies.
>  (14:49:48) yerenkow: just release update to 7.1.1 :D
>  (14:50:47) kmoore134: jnixon: good idea, maybe get all your themeing / 
> bugfixes put into it, and then make it more of a minor release. Or 
> should we do like yerenkow thinks and do 7.1.1?
>  (14:50:53) yerenkow: let's wait until release and first security fixes, 
> and after that you should decide, whether it'll be 7.2 release, or some 
> mandatory patch
>  (14:50:59) jnixon3_: The problem with releasing new versions so often, 
> we don't get much time to for people to adopt the new changes
>  (14:51:31) kmoore134: True, it does move people too quickly at times :P
>  (14:51:48) jnixon3_: And for some, not fast enough, hahaha
>  (14:51:51) yerenkow: patch will do the magic :)
>  (14:52:51) jnixon3_: whether we call it 7.1.1 or 7.1, I think we should 
> keep it all labeled as the Galileo edition, and continue to market it as 
> such.
>  (14:53:01) jnixon3_: 7.2*
>  (14:53:38) kmoore134: I'm thinking thats the way to go. We'll make it 
> just a minor update / patch to 7.1, and keep the Galileo name. Then work 
> on a new name / theme change and bigger stuff for 8.0
>  (14:54:28) MelkorBSD: better 7.2
>  (14:54:28) yerenkow: okay, we done here or not? :)
>  (14:54:42) kmoore134: We'll also keep new tools / features for 8.0, and 
> make the next 7.2 release just bugfixes / port updates
>  (14:54:50) jnixon3_: Yea, that'd be great :). I think we should 
> consider keeping our naming schemes unrelated to specific dot releases, 
> and be more flexible, so that say, when 8.1 comes out, it's not a whole 
> "new" release.
>  (14:55:22) kmoore134: great idea! Make 8.x a series, and keep the same 
> name / theme, etc
>  (14:55:27) jnixon3_: Exactly!
>  (14:55:35) kmoore134: ok, I'm good with that
>  (14:55:47) jnixon3_: Then we can brand for MUCh longer
>  (14:55:51) jnixon3_: :)
>  (14:56:01) kmoore134: Ok, I think were good here, on to next point?
>  (14:56:26) yerenkow: so, all have my plan opened? :) we're on #2
>  (14:57:34) kmoore134: I got list here. I'll probably be one to work 
> with you on some of these PBI features / ideas. I'm open to doing 
> anything we can to automate it further, saves us some work that way
>  (14:58:23) MelkorBSD: dependence of kdelibs
>  (14:58:39) yerenkow: OK, let me explain what I have here working;
>  (14:59:26) yerenkow: I have script, CreateModule
>  (15:00:37) yerenkow: I launch it like this: ./CreateModule audio/ardour 
> NO_VST
>  (15:02:26) kasina [n=kennedy at 196.201.208.129] entered the room.
>  (15:02:39) kasina: hi guys
>  (15:03:05) kmoore134: Hi Ken!
>  (15:03:33) kasina: hi kmoore134
>  (15:04:36) kmoore134: that script then makes the copy-files for our PBI 
> module, right?
>  (15:04:39) jpaetzel: back
>  (15:04:54) jnixon3_: wb
>  (15:05:13) jpaetzel: thanks
>  (15:06:33) |yerenkow| [n=kvirc at 82.193.97.247] entered the room.
>  (15:06:45) |yerenkow|: oh well
>  (15:06:53) kmoore134: Melkor: are you running into problems with the 
> kdelibs dependancy?
>  (15:07:44) |yerenkow|: have yoou received some my messages in last 8 
> minutes? :)
>  (15:08:47) kmoore134: just this: I launch it like this: ./CreateModule 
> audio/ardour NO_VST
>  (15:08:53) MelkorBSD: kmoore134: We talked with you about it
>  (15:09:18) |yerenkow|: [22:02:14] <yerenkow> it goes to 
> /usr/ports/audio/ardour, parse it; replace all variables I specified 
> with it's values (in this case, NO_VST is empty); each line is scanned, 
> if there still not-replaced variables (like %%VST%%bin/ardourvst) - then 
> this line not taking;
>  (15:09:18) |yerenkow|: [22:02:41] [RAW]: usr /ports/audio/ardour/ 
> parsing goes pkg-plist
>  (15:09:18) |yerenkow|: [22:03:48] <yerenkow> so, my script builds list 
> of files which provides this port, with given vaaribles
>  (15:09:18) |yerenkow|: [22:04:11] <yerenkow> it creates from this info 
> copy-files for PBi config
>  (15:09:19) |yerenkow|: [22:04:39] <yerenkow> But! It currently couldn't 
> found all depends libs/etc
>  (15:09:21) |yerenkow|: [22:05:31] <yerenkow> So, I'm thinking about 
> some cool and tricky sheme, like described under #2
>  (15:09:23) |yerenkow|: [22:05:57] <yerenkow> Kris, all, have you read 
> whole paragrapsh?
>  (15:10:02) kmoore134: Yep, read it here. I think it makes sense, as 
> long as you can get it working, I'm ok with us trying to use it
>  (15:10:55) kmoore134: I'll be happy to work with you more on this, we 
> can probably make it work nicely
>  (15:11:27) |yerenkow|: ok then, I'll continue experimenting with this; 
> only problem that code should be written twice - I'm making javacode, 
> you probably want get shell scripts :)
>  (15:11:33) gve [n=gve at 88-107-22-203.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] entered the 
> room.
>  (15:11:42) kmoore134: Meklor: yea, i've tried it without KDE4, but the 
> installer looks so ugly without the kde theme :(
>  (15:11:55) |yerenkow|: ok; then short and quick #3 :)
>  (15:12:06) kmoore134: yea, lets make #3 about 8.0 though
>  (15:12:21) jnixon3_: Agreed :P
>  (15:12:40) kmoore134: 7.2 will be purely bugfixes / port updates. Lets 
> focus on new features / ideas for 8.0. One biggie is that we'll be 
> putting in our new System Installer that Ken wrote
>  (15:12:44) |yerenkow|: ok, ken and gve - http://pastebin.com/d1c722883 
> here is discussion plan
>  (15:12:48) kmoore134: it looks MUCH nicer that what we have
>  (15:12:58) kmoore134: Not sure if you have URL to screenshot or not 
> right now Ken :)
>  (15:13:05) |yerenkow|: what about smaller/bigger resolution? it handles 
> OK it
>  (15:13:07) |yerenkow|: ?
>  (15:13:15) jnixon3_: Oh yea, I'd like to see that
>  (15:13:24) kmoore134: Ken, I think you said it scales properly right?
>  (15:13:48) |yerenkow|: I'm using here 1024x600, and old installer's 
> button is out of sight :)
>  (15:15:12) kasina: yes it scales properly
>  (15:15:28) kmoore134: do you have URL to screenshots anywhere ken?
>  (15:15:35) |yerenkow|: so, what's big TODO's do each have for 8.0?
>  (15:15:45) |yerenkow|: Except new cool installer? :)
>  (15:17:10) kasina: The screenshots are somewhere in cyberspace
>  (15:17:13) kmoore134: well, for my part, I've had some requests for OEM 
> installer version
>  (15:17:21) kasina: cant recall where - let me check
>  (15:17:22) kasina: :)
>  (15:17:28) gve left the room (quit: Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)).
>  (15:17:30) kmoore134: kasina: I've been looking, can't find them, don't 
> remember where ;)
>  (15:18:11) |yerenkow|: OEM it's like disk in envelope for hardware 
> vendors? :)
>  (15:18:53) kmoore134: yerenkow: yes. They want a version they can 
> "pre-load" on a system, and on first boot it just sets up the users 
> username / resolution. Then if they need to reload, its un-attended and 
> restores system, stuff like that
>  (15:19:10) jpaetzel: I'm frantically working on the livecd version of 
> PCBSD. I just sorted out how to boot FreeBSD off a cd without mounting 
> any filesystems off it
>  (15:19:14) kasina: kris what were the requests for OEM installer?
>  (15:19:27) jnixon3_: A complete visual makeover, including KDM, 
> Ksplash, Plasma theme, icon pack, Window decoration (style and border), 
> etc...
>  (15:19:56) yerenkow left the room (quit: Read error: 110 (Connection 
> timed out)).
>  (15:20:39) |yerenkow| is now known as yerenkow
>  (15:20:44) kmoore134: here's what one guy asked for:
>  (15:21:35) kmoore134: It allows you to install the drivers an software 
> that the customer has ordered and then "seals" the install so that the 
> the customer can set the root / admin password add users and time or any 
> other localisation options and more importantly accept the EULA in the 
> UK you can not accept it on the behalf of some one an you can land your 
> self in prity hot water if you do.
>  (15:22:05) yerenkow: :)
>  (15:22:51) yerenkow: ok, I see. So, "restore" feature we already have, 
> restoration console we have too (via xterm), what more...
>  (15:22:57) EffEPi77: back, sorry
>  (15:23:50) kmoore134: Another feature request is a GUI front-end to 
> pbidir.com, in our Software & Updates tool
>  (15:23:59) kasina: ok
>  (15:24:12) kmoore134: so that you can search for apps locally, and 
> install without having to use web-browser
>  (15:24:15) kasina: thats a possibility
>  (15:24:28) yerenkow: Kris, have you thought of some hidden partiton 
> with installation files, to make ability restore full system without any 
> original disks/internet?
>  (15:24:40) kasina: I can handle the GUI but will need some help with 
> the scripts
>  (15:25:04) EffEPi77: the API from the website are already in place
>  (15:25:11) EffEPi77: I just have to remember how to call them..
>  (15:25:15) EffEPi77: they are in XML
>  (15:25:32) jnixon3_: Yea, that'd be great!
>  (15:25:42) jnixon3_: I mean
>  (15:25:53) jnixon3_: It fits the theme of installing new wallpaper and 
> plasmoids ;-)
>  (15:26:02) EffEPi77: yep
>  (15:26:13) jnixon3_: I'm ALL about integration
>  (15:26:18) EffEPi77: actually I lvoe the way that Firefox 3 installs things
>  (15:26:22) jnixon3_: Make it ezgg
>  (15:26:27) EffEPi77: I agree
>  (15:26:39) kmoore134: yerenkow: I hadn't though of that actually, but I 
> know some will complain about extra space being used ;)
>  (15:27:05) yerenkow: make it optional :)
>  (15:27:09) EffEPi77: Kris, you can always set it that they can choose 
> to have it or not :-)
>  (15:27:28) kmoore134: kasina: I can help you with all script stuff. If 
> we make it optional, we can have a "recovery" partition created at 
> install time for OEM guys
>  (15:27:31) jnixon3_: Yea, that'd be kind of great to have around the office
>  (15:27:42) EffEPi77: I would choose not mainly 'cause my computers are 
> 20G drives.. but else I think is a great idea
>  (15:28:18) kasina: kmoore134: sure
>  (15:28:24) kmoore134: kasina: If you can add that "checkbox" to the new 
> GUI, and have it just call a script, I can probably program it in 
> script-wise
>  (15:28:34) yerenkow: ow, one more
>  (15:28:43) kmoore134: we'll have to discuss this feature more on dev 
> list, get a list of what we want it to do
>  (15:29:15) yerenkow: if we install from slow CD or USB, better check if 
> we have additioan 1Gb of space and copy PCBSD.tar.lzma to hdd before 
> unArchiving
>  (15:29:26) kmoore134: fabry: if you can remember the XML API, and 
> e-mail me information, I can maybe start working on that for 8.0 in the 
> next few months
>  (15:29:59) EffEPi77: sure.. probably the API needs some work .. but 
> they are easy to change...
>  (15:30:09) EffEPi77: I'll try to find the old email that I sent you.. I 
> have ti someplace
>  (15:30:11) kmoore134: yerenkow: do you think that makes a difference? 
> If its slow reading from CD/USB, it'll be just as slow to copy the file 
> to disk, then re-extract it from disk->disk
>  (15:30:12) jnixon3_: Has anyone ever tried integration between web 
> services and the desktop, like say, auto-populating your flickr account 
> with any image you put into the Images folder?
>  (15:30:18) kmoore134: fabry: cool, thanks!
>  (15:30:40) yerenkow: it's much FASTER to copy two big files from USB 
> than untar it :)
>  (15:30:51) EffEPi77: I saw some widgets for tweeter, so it should be 
> possible to do it
>  (15:30:59) rcuevas [n=rcuevas at 201.155.192.195] entered the room.
>  (15:31:07) yerenkow: I've install from USB about two hours, while copy 
> these two files took only 4 minutes or so
>  (15:31:22) kmoore134: jnixon: we already have web-enabled with 
> kipi-plugins. If you go to image in gwenview, and plugins -> export
>  (15:31:30) kmoore134: does flikr, facebook and others
>  (15:32:08) jnixon3_: Nice! So I'm talking about something you set up 
> and forget about, just add pics to your images folder and BLAM, it uploads
>  (15:32:11) yerenkow: so Kris, one more checkbox makes some peoples with 
> not fast hardware more happy :)
>  (15:32:37) gve2 [n=gve2 at 88-107-78-49.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] entered 
> the room.
>  (15:33:15) EffEPi77: jnixon3_: so you want a service that runs all the 
> time, check for new files in the folder and upload them to a website...
>  (15:33:20) kmoore134: jnixon: That may be something to ask the KDE 
> lists about. Neat feature / plugin, but I'm probably not going to be 
> able to write it :P
>  (15:34:04) kmoore134: yerenkow: Was the slow install because of USB 
> read times, or the lzma decompression in your case? :)
>  (15:34:11) jnixon3_: Yea, I thought it'd be KDE specific, just 
> something I thought be nice
>  (15:34:17) yerenkow: I think both :)
>  (15:34:28) jnixon3_: effepi77: thats exactly what Im talkin about
>  (15:35:31) kmoore134: well, that may be another feature we can consider
>  (15:35:36) EffEPi77: in PHP is pretty easy :-D.. I so do need to learn 
> python or QT...
>  (15:35:41) jnixon3_: There are so many services like ping.fm on the web 
> that want to update all your statuses at once, so I thought it'd be cool 
> to take the middleman out, and have your desktop integrated with the 
> API's of all your favorite websites.
>  (15:36:08) gve2 left the room (quit: Client Quit).
>  (15:36:15) gve2 [n=gve2 at 88-107-78-49.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] entered 
> the room.
>  (15:37:39) yerenkow: let's go further?
>  (15:38:23) EffEPi77: yep...
>  (15:38:41) yerenkow: #4. Pootle
>  (15:39:04) yerenkow: is there REALLY no alternative :)
>  (15:39:59) kmoore134: Thats the only one I'm aware of, does anybody 
> else know of a decent translation GUI / tool we can use?
>  (15:40:42) yerenkow: what input files for pootle do you use? you simply 
> "upload" some mo file, yes?
>  (15:42:31) kmoore134: we upload the .ts files from QT, then they turn 
> into .po files for pootle, and back to .ts when finished :P
>  (15:43:04) kasina left the room (quit: Read error: 104 (Connection 
> reset by peer)).
>  (15:43:09) kasina [n=kennedy at 196.201.208.129] entered the room.
>  (15:44:28) kmoore134: If anybody finds a better solution to Pootle, 
> just e-mail me & Josh. I'm willing to change, but its gotta be an 
> improvement ;)
>  (15:45:35) yerenkow: I have web-translation tool, created for fan 
> translations of console games :) it have reusage feature, suggestions, 
> and it's ajaxian, so many text could be translated REALLY fast; but it's 
> currently not production level; If we not bound to Pootle, we could 
> think about migration to my tool, if this will have sense
>  (15:46:41) yerenkow: ok, clear here
>  (15:47:12) EffEPi77: yerenkow: is it in PHP ?
>  (15:47:26) yerenkow: nope, it's J2EE :D
>  (15:47:38) EffEPi77: ouch... :P ok then... no much I can help with :)
>  (15:48:11) yerenkow: give me some IM contacts, if you have :)
>  (15:48:38) EffEPi77: Yahoo: effepi_system
>  (15:48:38) EffEPi77: AOL: EffEPi77
>  (15:50:30) yerenkow: ok, about GUI
>  (15:51:52) yerenkow: Have someone some thoughts about how we can create 
> many GUI without much efforts? :)
>  (15:52:25) kmoore134: you mean like the kdialog stuff we use right?
>  (15:53:17) yerenkow: yes, but something like a bit more complex dialogs
>  (15:53:36) yerenkow: I think about some xml definitions, or something else
>  (15:54:10) kmoore134: I don't think we should re-invent the wheel here. 
> That would be a TON of work, and you can always use kdialog, or even 
> Python/QT4 if you really need to
>  (15:54:33) kmoore134: http://wiki.python.org/moin/PyQt4
>  (15:54:51) kmoore134: we include PythonQT4 with base system, and KDE 
> needs it, so I think its pretty safe to use
>  (15:55:14) yerenkow: ok, someone will need to learn Python then :)
>  (15:55:31) yerenkow: #6
>  (15:55:57) jpaetzel: It's really wasy to think of a million things that 
> would be so cool, the problem that PC-BSD faces is that there is a huge 
> limitation of resources.
>  (15:56:16) jpaetzel: So we need to really strive for maximum return on 
> investment.
>  (15:56:39) yerenkow: I'd raised this question some time ago, and Kris 
> said that we shouldn't afraid of this :)
>  (15:56:54) gve2 left the room (quit: Read error: 110 (Connection timed 
> out)).
>  (15:57:14) kmoore134: jpaetzel is correct. More and more of my time is 
> being spend on just maintaining PBIs, releases, writing patches, 
> investigating bugs, etc. Its getting harder and harder to take on big 
> new projects personally. So I need to rely on most of you for these "big 
> ideas" to come to fruition :)
>  (15:58:03) kmoore134: In this case, its best to just use python-qt4, 
> instead of spending time writing a brand new format for script driven 
> GUIs :)
>  (15:58:44) yerenkow: fix PBI corruption issue, and make some easy way 
> for creating new PBI, and you;ll have a bit more time, Kris :)
>  (15:59:38) kmoore134: true, if we can automate PBI creation better, 
> that saves me lots of time
>  (16:00:57) yerenkow: #6 PBI Security
>  (16:01:11) yerenkow: we'll do nothing? even some signing? :)
>  (16:01:49) kmoore134: Right now we have md5 on pbidir.com, and internal 
> md5 check when you first start to run PBI
>  (16:02:08) kmoore134: so we can detect if program data bas been 
> tampered with / corrupted
>  (16:02:36) yerenkow: I'm not about this; I'm about making some 3rd 
> party PBI, which could be dangerous
>  (16:02:44) EffEPi77: Kris, does pbidir.com server have direct access to 
> the pbi folder?
>  (16:02:53) EffEPi77: I could check the md5 before serving the files.
>  (16:04:00) kmoore134: fabry: They are on different box :( No room on 
> webserver right now. Josh, when do we move web-server to new system? If 
> so, I can mirror PBI's on hidden web-folder, and fabry can check sums then
>  (16:04:03) yerenkow: Signed PBI's could be install as root; unsigned - 
> not; what about this?
>  (16:04:29) kmoore134: i'm not a big fan of having to do signed PBIs, 
> and stopping people from making 3rd party ones
>  (16:04:31) EffEPi77: br
>  (16:04:32) EffEPi77: brb
>  (16:05:14) kmoore134: If we go that route, we essentially become both 
> operating system / software supplier, and everbody who wants to write an 
> app for PC-BSD has to come to us to get a key, right?
>  (16:05:45) yerenkow: we could give keys without problems
>  (16:06:12) jpaetzel: Matt has some big master plan to yank out of SVWH 
> and install a better set of systems in the new environment, but who 
> knows about that
>  (16:06:41) jpaetzel: I'd like to have thre systems, then I could set up 
> 2-3 failover so any one could drop without affecting anything.
>  (16:07:27) jpaetzel: right now the webserver is very fragile, and out 
> of disk space, there's no backplane network to NFS mount off the ftp 
> server, no remote console
>  (16:07:36) jpaetzel: And the box at ISC is in worse shape
>  (16:07:45) kmoore134: jpaetzel: OK, so I'll have to bug matt about 
> getting those systems in... AGAIN.... :P
>  (16:07:59) jpaetzel: good luck
>  (16:08:26) jpaetzel: Really the whole shooting match is super fragile.
>  (16:08:32) kmoore134: yerenkow: If you can put together a schematic on 
> how we can sign the PBIs, include the signature, so you can install 
> offline / online, I may entertain the notion ;)
>  (16:09:06) kmoore134: josh: yea, every time we release, we crash the 
> web-server, and ISC is doing no better. I want them replaced like 
> yesterday as well ;)
>  (16:09:07) yerenkow: Ok, let's think about this
>  (16:09:21) yerenkow: I'll send to testing list email, maybe there will 
> be more ideas
>  (16:09:47) yerenkow: #7
>  (16:10:18) yerenkow: LC_ vars for non-english languages have probles
>  (16:10:22) yerenkow: problems;
>  (16:10:48) yerenkow: Kris, why LC_ALL vars was dropped?
>  (16:12:36) kmoore134: yerenkow: This should be fixed now :)
>  (16:12:52) kmoore134: # Check locale setup
>  (16:12:52) kmoore134: if [ -z "${LANG}" ]
>  (16:12:52) kmoore134: then
>  (16:12:52) kmoore134:  LANG="`grep ^Language= 
> ~/.kde4/share/config/kdeglobals | cut -d '=' -f2`"
>  (16:12:52) kmoore134:  if [ ! -z "${LANG}" ]
>  (16:12:53) kmoore134:  then
>  (16:12:55) kmoore134:  echo $LANG | grep "UTF-8" >/dev/null 2>/dev/null
>  (16:12:56) yerenkow: is it fixed on PBI level or on System>
>  (16:12:57) kmoore134:  if [ "$?" != "0" ]
>  (16:12:59) kmoore134:  then
>  (16:13:01) kmoore134:  LANG="${LANG}.UTF-8"
>  (16:13:03) kmoore134:  fi
>  (16:13:05) kmoore134:  export LANG
>  (16:13:07) kmoore134:  LC_ALL="${LANG}" ; export LC_ALL
>  (16:13:09) kmoore134:  fi
>  (16:13:11) kmoore134: else
>  (16:13:13) kmoore134:  LC_ALL="${LANG}" ; export LC_ALL
>  (16:13:15) kmoore134: fi
>  (16:13:17) kmoore134: thats what we got in PBI's now
>  (16:13:19) kmoore134: its in each PBI, not system itself
>  (16:13:28) kmoore134: if you grab something recently built, you'll see 
> what I mean
>  (16:13:59) yerenkow: I'll get this, I'll check if it works well
>  (16:14:48) kmoore134: it seems to here, but let me know if you run into 
> probs with it
>  (16:15:20) yerenkow: Ok. I'm all done :) Maybe someone else have some 
> questions/subjects?
>  (16:16:01) kmoore134: http://www.pcbsd.org/~kris/newinstall-welcome.png
>  (16:16:09) kmoore134: Thats URL for screenshot of new installer BTW
>  (16:16:55) jpaetzel: Nice
>  (16:17:36) kmoore134: Ken did a really good job with it, I'm looking 
> forward to running it here on 8.0
>  (16:18:38) yerenkow: Yep, good
>  (16:18:47) jnixon3_: Wow, nice!
>  (16:19:01) kmoore134: http://www.pcbsd.org/~kris/installer1.png
>  (16:19:13) kmoore134: here's more recent, which scales properly on diff 
> resolutions
>  (16:20:03) kmoore134: http://www.pcbsd.org/~kris/installer2.png
>  (16:20:25) kmoore134: I have 1 or 2 things
>  (16:20:28) kmoore134: before we all go
>  (16:20:45) kmoore134: First, the Forums. PHPBB is showing its age, and 
> its getting harder and harder to stop spammers.
>  (16:21:03) kmoore134: Any suggestions on moving to new software? Heck, 
> maybe even GoogleGroups?
>  (16:21:09) yerenkow: Kris, we could in partition manager add 
> mountpoints of other disks? For example, we installing on ad0s1c, and 
> add mountpoint for ad2s1c for somewhere, like for /PCBSD ? :)
>  (16:22:06) kmoore134: yerenkow: That could probably be done. We'll need 
> to check with Ken, see if we can put that in new GUI, and then I'll 
> write support for scripts to do it
>  (16:22:12) yerenkow: Google groups not really forum, most of currently 
> far defeloped forums are php; so I think we should search there
>  (16:22:24) kasina: that is already considered
>  (16:22:52) kasina: Its in the advanced module of the partitioner
>  (16:23:07) kasina: maybe shifting it as can be suggested?
>  (16:24:18) yerenkow: About forums, something like this should be 
> studied: 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_Internet_forum_software_(PHP)
>  (16:24:53) kmoore134: ok, I'll look through list, see what other 
> software options we have
>  (16:24:57) jnixon3_: Ubuntuforums.org uses vBulletin
>  (16:25:07) rcuevas: I installed PCBSD on my laptop, and work compiz and 
> kde, great, but I don't know what update, broke my external monitor, 
> which I used for meetings, I leave of PCBSD and install freebsd direct 
> with kde 3.x
>  (16:25:35) rcuevas: but, I love PCBSD, if dont break previous thinks
>  (16:25:39) yerenkow: And if you currently have problems with DB load, 
> you should think about PostgreSQL
>  (16:26:00) kmoore134: jnix: would you like to look into this? You're a 
> web-guy also, maybe recommend good forum software, which is secure from 
> spam? :)
>  (16:26:51) kmoore134: rcuevas: Are you still on 1.x / KDE3? Maybe the 
> thing which broke it is update to Xorg 7.4? That broke lots of stuff, 
> still sifting through it all
>  (16:27:09) kmoore134: 2nd thing I had, was doing an End-Of-Life for 
> PC-BSD 1.x series, and stop rolling PBIs for them at some point
>  (16:27:23) jnixon3_: Yea, I will look into this some more, and see 
> what's up. What we have to do currently is kind of ridiculous.
>  (16:28:01) kmoore134: once we get moving on 8.0, we won't have manpower 
> to keep maintaining PBI's for all FBSD 6.x, 7.x, and 8.x. And 6.x is 
> breaking with more and more ports all the time
>  (16:28:01) jpaetzel: PHP pretty much implies MySQL
>  (16:28:22) jpaetzel: They have a fairly good database connector, PHP to 
> postgres is a loser.
>  (16:28:28) rcuevas: no, no, no, i'm now on kde3, because upgrades of 
> PCBSD 7.x broke my system, them I formated and install freebsd 7.x 
> because i need work with the laptop
>  (16:28:34) yerenkow: postgresql-php not a problem
>  (16:29:03) jpaetzel: Tell tha to the postgresql devs.
>  (16:29:05) yerenkow: if there is a mysql load probles, pg could solve 
> this, will be some win
>  (16:29:05) rcuevas: I was installed PCBSD 7.1
>  (16:29:20) ***jpaetzel was at pgcon last year.
>  (16:29:22) rcuevas: then upgraded, then broken
>  (16:29:23) kmoore134: rcuevas: Ahh, ok. Maybe e-mail me details about 
> issue, and I'll see if we can figure it out
>  (16:29:43) kmoore134: rcuevas: I use dual-head here, and it works fine 
> still ;)
>  (16:29:52) rcuevas: ok, I'm install PCBSD again on external disk for test
>  (16:29:55) kmoore134: k
>  (16:30:03) jpaetzel: yerenkow: I manage somethin like 25 really big 
> postgresql installations, it's bnot a good solution for a PHP backend. :)
>  (16:30:25) kmoore134: any comment about EOL for 1.x series and PBIs? 
> Anybody still running lots of 1.x systems that need current apps?
>  (16:30:27) rcuevas: work great on out the box install, but with 
> upgrades broke
>  (16:30:46) yerenkow: Oh well :) I had two succesful migration of big DB 
> from my to pg, but there wasn't php :)
>  (16:31:02) yerenkow: Didn't know there such with php :-P
>  (16:31:23) jpaetzel: The postgresql -> php driver is not very good
>  (16:31:26) rcuevas: another question, I don't have way to modify kdm 
> theme. i cant switch to administrator mode, and i cant login as root
>  (16:32:13) jnixon3_: use the System Settings (Administrator)
>  (16:32:26) kmoore134: rcuevas: start -> applications -> system -> 
> System Settings (Administrator)
>  (16:33:57) yerenkow: I know, you guys running out of time :) Is there 
> something important left?
>  (16:34:07) rcuevas: ok, I dont have PCBSD on this moment, but i will
>  (16:34:19) kmoore134: so, no comments on EOL for 1.x? Does that mean 
> nobody is using it anymore? I was thinking of doing 2-3 month notice
>  (16:35:01) yerenkow: I think you should make notice, and propose some 
> vote or make poll "who's still on 1.x"
>  (16:35:12) jnixon3_: I stopped using it when 7 went beta :P
>  (16:35:21) rcuevas: another problem, knemo on kde3.x works fine with 
> wireless, but on kde4, knetwork.... reset my wireless of time on time, 
> very unstable.
>  (16:35:31) yerenkow: and considering how many peoples use it - make EOL 
> date
>  (16:35:42) kmoore134: ok, we'll have to put poll in on forums
>  (16:36:04) yerenkow: On 1.x still peopels who have some serious 
> problems with 7
>  (16:36:36) yerenkow: like hardware problems;
>  (16:37:01) kmoore134: Well, hardware issues are tough for us, because 
> thats depenant on FBSD itself. We don't have a lot of control over that
>  (16:37:31) jpaetzel: New hardware gets new operating systems, old 
> hardware gets old operating systems.
>  (16:37:34) jnixon3_: If they have problems with KDE4, but want to use 
> 7, maybe they should give fluxbox a try
>  (16:37:43) rcuevas: kmoore134, do you may put one option on install for 
> select kde3.x or kde4.x ?
>  (16:37:54) jpaetzel: Trying to install FreeBSD 7 on a box from 2005 is 
> a path to things not working.
>  (16:38:12) jnixon3_: Makes sense
>  (16:38:20) EffEPi77: I am using it on a maching from 2006 with success
>  (16:38:25) kmoore134: rcuevas: No, kde 3.x is defunct, and all apps are 
> already moving to KDE4 / QT4, don't see reason to keep supporting it 
> long-term
>  (16:38:29) jpaetzel: As is installing FreeBSD 6 on something you just 
> bought new today
>  (16:38:31) yerenkow: actually I have two boxes, where install dvd not 
> goes after trying to load kernel
>  (16:38:43) yerenkow: so this is not KDE4 issues :)
>  (16:39:35) jpaetzel: And FreeBSD 5.0 stoppd working on my dual pentium 
> pro machine, whereas FreeBSD4.11 worked just fine. Go figure
>  (16:39:37) rcuevas: for two reasons, compiz with kde3.x its more stable 
> what kde4.x, and kde3.x its more stable with laptops vs kde4.x on 
> wireless terms
>  (16:40:10) rcuevas: :$
>  (16:40:55) jpaetzel: I think our limited resources are best spent 
> trying to move forward.
>  (16:41:05) kmoore134: rcuevas: well, I can't change that at moment, but 
> to say that KDE4 is improving daily. I find that compositing is far more 
> stable on KDE4 than with compiz :)
>  (16:41:05) jpaetzel: Not attempting to keep old stuff working.
>  (16:41:32) yerenkow: How about ignore update feature? :)
>  (16:41:47) kmoore134: jpaetzel: My thoughts exactly, we need to be 
> looking forward to 8.0, not back at FreeBSD 6.x, and finding out why 
> ports wont compile on it
>  (16:41:54) jnixon3_: Yea
>  (16:42:17) yerenkow: For example, I have intel/ati video, and not 
> interested in NVidia driver updates. Will we have in future some "ignore 
> update" feature
>  (16:42:40) rcuevas: make sense
>  (16:42:47) jnixon3_: Kris
>  (16:42:51) yerenkow: and list installed and ignored "fixes"
>  (16:42:58) kmoore134: yerenkow: Good thinking, I would have to create 
> some categories, that you can ignore, and flag each update as what cat it is
>  (16:43:03) jnixon3_: sorry, Im enter-happy this morning...
>  (16:43:30) jnixon3_: And what about an Edit button on the WiFi profiles gui
>  (16:43:44) rcuevas: mmmm, I don't, one list of the files will updating?
>  (16:43:56) kmoore134: jnixon: Its on my TODO list still, maybe squeeze 
> it into 7.2, but 8.0 for sure :)
>  (16:44:06) yerenkow: Kris, what about roll-back update? Is it possible?
>  (16:44:06) jnixon3_: Nice!
>  (16:44:12) yerenkow: for any reason
>  (16:44:18) EffEPi77: well, kris, not that easy ;-) as nvidia is "video 
> drivers" category.. I want them, just not the nvidia ones (here I have 
> the same tquestion.. why should I download nvidia when I have only intel)
>  (16:44:44) yerenkow: I think we should ignore not categories, but 
> individual updates
>  (16:44:53) kmoore134: Ok, that makes sense
>  (16:45:04) kmoore134: I'll put some thought into it, figure out how we 
> can do that :)
>  (16:45:34) EffEPi77: okie :).. let me know if you need help on that.. I 
> had some experience with updates and similar
>  (16:45:44) jnixon3_: And a cancel updates button maybe? ... Like when 
> I'm updating 7 PBI's and realize I've just brought the office to a hault lol
>  (16:45:49) yerenkow: But! we must be able list all ignored, and install 
> it in future. For example, I have external HDD with PC-BSD, and I could 
> use it somewhere with nvidia video
>  (16:46:27) EffEPi77: there has to be a list somewhere to be able to 
> ignore it :-)
>  (16:46:41) EffEPi77: it would be just a feature that allow to show such 
> list :)
>  (16:46:46) jnixon3_: :P
>  (16:46:47) yerenkow: So, would be good list all 
> installed/ignored/available updates, and be able to 
> install/uninstall/ignore/unignore them
>  (16:47:32) kmoore134: yea, I think we could do that fairly easily, make 
> a "show ignored" checkbox or something
>  (16:48:07) EffEPi77: not sure about the uninstall.... Kris may say more 
> about that.. some updates override files or change them, and they cannot 
> be "undone" easily
>  (16:48:07) EffEPi77: unless we start to use backups of files and DIFFs..
>  (16:48:21) yerenkow: Okay, one more, mind-maps; Someone from you guys, 
> give a try for Xmind PBI I created? :)
>  (16:48:39) EffEPi77: at that point the need for a "free disk from this 
> update" is necessary.. something that will remove the backup making the 
> update "un-undeleteable"
>  (16:48:50) kmoore134: yerenkow: Did you send me link to PBI you made of 
> Xmind? I'll try it out
>  (16:49:25) yerenkow: EffEPi77: If ome update broke my system because 
> some FBSD hardware issue (or else) I would be VERY dissapointed being 
> unable uninstall it :(
>  (16:50:04) EffEPi77: I agree.. but in that case you would not be able 
> to even start KDE.... :-)
>  (16:50:23) yerenkow: http://gits.kiev.ua/pcbsd/ there are two zips for 
> pcbsd7; I remembered, I haven't done PBIs :D
>  (16:51:09) yerenkow: EffEPi77: About what would be good have before KDE 
> starts, would be discussed in this year :D
>  (16:51:15) EffEPi77: yerenkow: I agree that is a great feature, just 
> don't think that is possible to undo all the changes.. Kris will 
> probably know more once that he thinks a bit about it :)
>  (16:51:28) kmoore134: yerenkow, lets try to make a PBI of xmind soon, 
> that would be best
>  (16:52:05) yerenkow: is builded with PBI creator (GUI one) would be 
> enough? :)
>  (16:52:27) kmoore134: That may be fine, would be best to use builder 
> though, so we can re-roll it for amd64 as well, and remake it easily
>  (16:52:29) yerenkow: And I have no amd64 installation, so I probably 
> couldn't build amd64 ver
>  (16:52:39) kmoore134: is xmind in ports?
>  (16:52:43) yerenkow: nope
>  (16:53:05) kmoore134: can you send me info on how you made it, and then 
> I can automate it in pbi build module
>  (16:53:10) ***miwi could porting xmind :>
>  (16:53:25) kmoore134: miwi: that would be best! Make it easier for us :)
>  (16:53:43) yerenkow: miwi, xmind need only executable build automation, 
> and this binary is the same as in eclipse port :)\
>  (16:53:43) kmoore134: miwi: are you also updating flock? Saw you as 
> maintainer for it
>  (16:54:07) yerenkow: apart from this, I took files from their portable 
> version.
>  (16:54:43) miwi: i grepped all gecko stuff :(
>  (16:54:49) yerenkow: And features which requires browser didn't work 
> for me neither in Xmind, nor in Eclipse, so I think that's not must-have 
> feature\
>  (16:55:12) miwi: kmoore134: do you know where I can find the sources :)
>  (16:55:22) miwi: i found only binarys :(
>  (16:55:56) kmoore134: 
> http://downloads.flock.com/index.php?product=flock-source-current&os=linux
>  (16:56:00) miwi: yerenkow: we have a lot Eclipse module ports
>  (16:56:12) miwi: wtf
>  (16:56:17) kmoore134: http://developer.flock.com/wiki/Main_Page
>  (16:56:44) kmoore134: 
> http://ftp.osuosl.org/pub/flock/releases/2.0/flock-2.0-source.tar.bz2
>  (16:56:56) kmoore134: there you go, had to get right URL :P
>  (16:57:15) kmoore134: anyway, does anybody else have anything else 
> quickly?
>  (16:57:27) kmoore134: Who would like to post this log to pcbsd-dev tonight?
>  (16:58:30) EffEPi77: I am going to save it.. someone else do it too.. 
> just in case :-)
>  (16:58:46) EffEPi77: I'll send it as an email to the mailing list
>  (16:58:55) EffEPi77: if not, I send an email and someone else can post 
> it :)
>  (16:58:56) EffEPi77: ok?
>  (16:59:03) kmoore134: k, thanks Fabry :)
>  (16:59:14) kmoore134: E-mail me if you can't post it
>  (16:59:41) EffEPi77: k
>  (17:00:08) kmoore134: Well, i'm going to take off now. Thanks for 
> attending everybody! Please make sure you are all subscribed to 
> pcbsd-dev mailing list, and we can continue to discuss these ideas / 
> features going forward
>  (17:00:33) EffEPi77: ok, have a great evening everybody
>  (17:00:48) jpaetzel left the room.
>  (17:00:51) kasina: thank you
>  (17:00:59) kmoore134: thank you all! ttyl!
>  (17:01:02) kmoore134 left the room.
>  (17:01:10) yerenkow left the room ("No matter how dark the night, 
> somehow the Sun rises once again").
>  (17:01:19) kasina left the room. 
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